In this episode of REdirect, Jonathan and Storm welcome Chad Ackerman, Founder of CARE, to break down the realities of passive real estate syndications. Drawing on his experience as an advisor and business coach, Chad shares the lessons he learned the hard way so others don’t have to.

The conversation goes beyond surface-level deal analysis and dives into what truly drives outcomes for limited partners. Chad explains why operator vetting beats spreadsheet projections every time, how communication style reveals integrity, and why community intelligence can protect investors from avoidable losses.

They also tackle overlooked topics like vintage diversification, bonus depreciation, capital stack awareness, and how to position yourself when capital is sitting on the sidelines. For busy professionals who want exposure to real estate without the operational burden, this episode offers a practical roadmap to building passive income with discipline and confidence.

Build your buy box before reviewing deals
Why defining your risk tolerance, target returns, liquidity needs, and non-negotiables upfront helps you eliminate emotional decision-making and say “no” faster.

Why you always bet on the jockey, not the horse
 A strong operator can navigate a challenging deal; a weak operator can destroy a great one. Track record, transparency, and alignment matter more than projected IRRs.

The communication test that exposes integrity
 How operators handle bad news tells you more than how they market good news. Transparency builds trust; defensiveness signals risk.

How to leverage community over solo due diligence
 Why joining LP communities and gathering referrals dramatically improves outcomes and reduces exposure to inexperienced or predatory sponsors.

Why vintage diversification matters
 The year you invest can shape your returns more than the asset class itself. Spreading capital across cycles smooths volatility and reduces concentration risk.

The tax advantages most passive investors overlook
 How bonus depreciation and cost segregation can offset income and enhance after-tax returns when structured properly.

How to prepare before deploying capital
 If you’re not investing today, use the time to study capital stacks, loan structures, and operator history so you’re ready when an opportunity arises.

Chad Ackerman is the founder of CARE (Chad Ackerman Real Estate), an education and coaching platform that helps busy professionals build wealth through passive real estate syndications without becoming landlords. Today, Chad equips high-income professionals with the tools, community, and guidance they need to invest confidently - focusing on disciplined operator vetting, smart portfolio construction, and long-term wealth building.

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In this episode of REdirect, Jonathan Spitz sits down with Phil Bak, founder of Skyline Standard and former ETF innovator, to unpack why tokenization may fundamentally reshape commercial real estate over the next decade.

Rather than framing tokenization as a crypto trend, Phil explains it as a market structure innovation: one designed to solve the biggest friction points in private real estate investing - illiquidity, fragmented data, inconsistent reporting, and lack of standardized trust infrastructure.

The conversation dives deep into why real estate tokenization differs from stock tokenization, how blockchain-enabled verification systems could automate due diligence from months to minutes, and why the missing “trust layer” is the key to unlocking broader institutional adoption.

Phil also explores how embedded proof systems, standardized data protocols, and automated compliance could transform the way investors evaluate assets, while simultaneously reducing operational burdens for property owners and operators.

From ETF innovation to digital asset infrastructure, this episode offers a practical, forward-looking framework for understanding how real estate markets may evolve and why the next generation of investors may expect transparency and liquidity by default.

Why tokenization is bigger than crypto speculation
How tokenization should be understood as a market structure innovation that reduces friction, automates processes, and improves transparency, not simply as a speculative blockchain trend.

Why real estate is the ideal use case for tokenization
Public equities already trade efficiently. Real estate, by contrast, remains fragmented, illiquid, and operationally complex, making it far more likely to benefit from blockchain infrastructure.

The “trust layer” missing from private real estate
Why every successful liquid asset market relies on standardized verification systems and why real estate still lacks the authenticated data infrastructure institutional capital requires.

How proof-based investing could modernize due diligence
How zero-knowledge proofs, embedded property data, proof of occupancy, and automated compliance systems could allow investors to verify deals digitally in real time.

Why operators benefit from tokenization too
Tokenization doesn’t just help investors, it reduces manual data rooms, accelerates fundraising, broadens buyer pools, and streamlines reporting for property owners and sponsors.

Why demographic shifts may accelerate adoption faster than regulation
Younger investors and future institutional leaders are increasingly comfortable with blockchain-native systems, creating long-term adoption tailwinds independent of government mandates.

How tokenization compares to REITs and private funds
The trade-offs between liquidity, governance, transparency, and access and why tokenized structures may eventually sit between traditional public and private real estate vehicles.

Phil Bak is the Founder and CEO of Skyline Standard, a platform building the trust layer for tokenized commercial real estate through standardized, proof-based investment infrastructure. A two-time founder with two successful exits, Phil previously served as CEO of Armada ETF Advisors, a REIT-specialty asset manager later acquired by Inveniam. He is also the host of The Phil Bak Podcast and author of Bakstack on Substack, where he writes about the future of asset management, tokenization, and private markets. 

[00:00:00] Intro

[00:02:35] Breaking Down Tokenization

[00:06:35] Understanding Ownership, Rights, And Liability

[00:09:20] Making Institutional Due Diligence Faster

[00:12:01] Solving The Real Estate Trust Layer

[00:16:21] Why Ratings Infrastructure Matters

[00:24:00] How Skyline Standard Supports Tokenized Deals

[00:30:33] Benefits Of Tokenized Real Estate Over REITs

[00:41:13] Building Confidence For A Trillion-Dollar Market 

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A candid, practical conversation for anyone trying to make sense of the real estate market today.

Richard Barkham is a globally recognized expert in macroeconomics and real estate cycles. He previously served as Global Chief Economist and Global Head of Research at CBRE, where he led more than 600 research professionals worldwide. He is currently a Senior Fellow and Lecturer in Real Estate at Harvard University’s Graduate School of Design and Professor of the Practice at the University of North Carolina’s Kenan-Flagler Business School.

Richard is a Member of the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors (MRICS) and a Counselor of Real Estate (CRE), and he continues to advise institutional investors on navigating global property markets through economic cycles.

[00:00] – Intro

[05:16] – Creating Content That Caters to Shorter Attention Spans

[09:18] – Navigating Shocks: From The Great Financial Crisis To Covid

[20:09] – Banking Stress, The Fed’s Response, And The Wall Of Maturities

[29:07] – Where Should Investors Deploy Capital Today?

[36:20] – Is Now The Time To Seize Opportunity In Commercial Real Estate?

[40:03] – Downtown Revival And The Office-To-Residential Shift

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In this episode of REdirect, Jonathan Spitz and Storm Murphy sit down with John Pawlowski, Managing Director at Green Street, a leading independent real estate research firm, to explore one of the most compelling dislocations in today’s market: apartment REITs trading 13–25% below their net asset value.

Drawing on Green Street’s 40-year research methodology, John explains why this disconnect exists, how government-backed financing advantages are skewing valuations, and why the current environment is triggering a wave of privatizations across the REIT landscape.

The conversation goes deeper into how investors should interpret NAV discounts (and their limitations), why public and private market signals are diverging, and what that means for forward-looking capital allocation. John also breaks down where real opportunity exists today, from senior housing benefiting from demographic tailwinds to single-family rental REITs trading at steep discounts and why the “housing shortage” narrative is far more nuanced than most investors realize.

Whether you’re a public market investor, private real estate operator, or allocator seeking relative value, this episode offers a clear framework for navigating market dislocations and positioning for what may be the next major opportunity in housing.

How NAV analysis actually works (and its limitations)
Why NAV discounts are useful for identifying relative value across sectors over time but not reliable as short-term timing tools for individual investments.

Why apartment REITs trade at persistent discounts
How government-backed financing (Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) gives private buyers cheaper leverage, structurally pressuring public REIT valuations compared to other sectors like industrial and self-storage.

How to spot real estate arbitrage opportunities
When public and private market pricing diverge significantly, it signals mispricing. Today’s REIT discounts suggest either public markets are oversold or private valuations need to adjust.

Why rent growth expectations need a reset
Even as supply moderates, slower job growth means rent increases will likely remain modest, not the sharp rebound many investors are underwriting.

Why the housing shortage narrative is misleading
Shortages exist but are concentrated in specific segments like affordable housing and single-family homes, while many apartment markets face oversupply.

Where to deploy capital in housing today
Why senior housing offers higher yields and strong NOI growth potential, why select apartment markets like San Francisco may be recovering, and why single-family rental REITs present discounted public market exposure.

How demographic trends shape long-term returns
Why the “silver tsunami” is creating powerful tailwinds for senior housing and how demographic shifts should influence portfolio positioning.

John Pawlowski is a Managing Director at Green Street, where he leads research coverage across apartments, single-family rentals, and manufactured housing, overseeing analysis on roughly 10 publicly traded real estate companies. A widely cited voice in the industry, he has been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, and CNBC, and is a member of the National Multifamily Housing Council (NMHC). Prior to joining Green Street in 2014, John worked as a financial analyst at JPMorgan Chase. 

[00:00:00] Intro

[00:03:20] How Green Street Values REITs Through NAV And Private Market Signals

[00:06:06] What Public-Private Pricing Gaps Reveal About Real Estate Value

[00:11:02] Why REIT Privatizations Are Accelerating Across Real Estate

[00:19:41] Apartments, Supply Peaks, And Why A V-Shaped Recovery Is Unlikely

[00:23:39] Residential Market Selection, Class B Demand, And The Housing Shortage Debate

[00:35:36] Which Housing Sectors Look Most Compelling Over The Next Five Years

[00:40:03] Career Advice, Key Takeaways, And Where To Follow John Pawlowski

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The conversation moves into practical, actionable insights. Richard explains why tiering across property type and quality now dominates performance, why modern logistics and Class B housing offer selective opportunity, and why data centers should be viewed as infrastructure plays rather than speculative tech bets. He highlights secondary and overlooked markets poised for growth, from Knoxville to Columbus to Greenville, driven by industrial reshoring, AI demand, and long-term demographic shifts.

Listeners will also learn how to think about CRE like equity sector rotation, why patience and operational skill outweigh financial engineering, and the importance of focusing on net operating income and unlevered IRRs over headline cap rates. 

For anyone deploying capital, evaluating risk, or trying to separate signal from noise, Richard provides a clear, disciplined roadmap for the next phase of CRE - emphasizing humility, long-term thinking, and simplicity.

Build vs. Buy - when it actually makes sense

Why high construction costs + below-replacement pricing can still create rare development windows, especially in logistics.

Why unlevered IRR beats cap rates
How focusing on true project returns (not headline yields) can justify selective development, including data centers.

How “tiering” reveals where growth really is
Top-tier assets are winning while older stock struggles and why Class B housing and modern logistics stand out.

Why CRE behaves more like sector rotation than one asset class
Different property types move on different timelines and the averages hide opportunity.

The lower-risk path to data centers
Why “powered shell” development lets investors earn strong returns without becoming a tech company.

Office isn’t dead - it’s divided
Most vacancy sits in weaker buildings, while high-quality assets may quietly present long-term value.

AI + reshoring as long-term tailwinds
From data centers to the new “battery belt,” industrial demand is being reshaped for the next decade.

Simple rules that outlast every cycle
Stay humble, think long-term, and keep the math straightforward - quality + valuation still drive outcomes.

Richard Hill is Senior Managing Director and Global Head of Real Estate Research & Strategy at Principal Asset Management, where he leads global research, shapes capital allocation strategy, and delivers the firm’s real estate outlook to clients. With more than two decades of experience across derivatives, capital markets, and research, Richard previously led real estate strategy and research at Cohen & Steers and headed Commercial Real Estate Research at Morgan Stanley. 

[00:00:00] Intro

[00:01:34] – 2026 Market Outlook

[00:02:52] – Build Versus Buy: Why Modern Logistics Development Still Makes Sense

[00:05:26] – Class B Opportunities, NOI Growth, And The Cap Rate Debate

[00:16:39] – Employment Trends, AI Spending, And Consumer Strength

[00:17:41] – Investing in Data Centers 

[00:28:40] – The Rebirth Of Secondary Markets And Transformational Economic Booms

[00:33:18] – Three Nuggets of Wisdom on Investing in Real Estate

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In this conversation, Jonathan and Storm are joined by Richard Hill, who brings decades of perspective across derivatives, capital markets, public REITs, and private real estate. Richard lays out his framework for understanding cycles - why listed markets trough first, private valuations adjust later, and distress in the debt markets often shows up last.

From there, the discussion turns tactical: how rising rates compressed valuations even as fundamentals held up, why “tiering” across markets and property types is now impossible to ignore, and why this cycle belongs to investors who can genuinely operate, not simply rely on appreciation.

For anyone allocating capital, underwriting risk, or trying to make sense of what comes next, Richard offers a grounded, data-driven roadmap for navigating the next phase of CRE - with patience, objectivity, and discipline.

- Why cycles don’t move all at once and how to read the “trough sequence”.
 Listed REITs reset first, private valuations follow, and debt distress lags - understanding this cadence helps investors avoid panic-selling and recognize early recovery signals.

- How rising interest rates caused valuations to fall, even while fundamentals held steady
 When financing costs spike but rents stay flat, bond math forces prices down. The selloff wasn’t irrational, it was mechanical.

- Housing shortage vs. housing mismatch: what investors often get wrong
 The U.S. isn’t simply underbuilt. It’s misbuilt: too much Class A in hot markets, not enough attainable housing - creating opportunity for selective, disciplined capital.

- Why the next decade will reward operators, not speculators
 Appreciation-driven returns masked weak execution in the 2010–2022 era. Now leasing, expense control, and asset management drive alpha.

- How to evaluate markets beyond hype headlines
 Household formation data, not population alone, reveals oversupply risks and hidden outperformers, from Louisville to Knoxville to Huntsville.

- Why distress can signal the beginning of opportunity, not the end
 Lenders resolve problems late in the cycle. Rising delinquencies often indicate acceptance, stabilization, and attractive entry points.

- Why today quietly resembles the late 1990s playbook
 As investors rediscover income stability and diversification, CRE may once again outperform broader risk assets despite macro uncertainty.

Richard Hill is Senior Managing Director and Global Head of Real Estate Research & Strategy at

Principal Asset Management, where he leads global research, shapes capital allocation strategy, and delivers the firm’s real estate outlook to clients. With more than two decades of experience across derivatives, capital markets, and research, Richard previously led real estate strategy and research at Cohen & Steers and headed Commercial Real Estate Research at Morgan Stanley. 

[00:00:00] Intro

[00:02:41] – Richard Hill’s Journey: From Wall Street To Head Of Global Research

[00:05:26] – Understanding Real Estate Cycles: Public REITs And Debt Markets

[00:12:32] – The Reasons Behind Resilient Global Economies

[00:14:35] – Financial Engineering Vs. Fundamentals In A Higher-Rate World

[00:23:32] – Supply, Demand, And Market Selection: Where Opportunities Are Emerging

[00:27:42] – Build Vs. Buy: Replacement Costs, Tariffs, And The Development Slowdown

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In this episode of REdirect, Jonathan Spitz speaks with Sanford Blumenthal, SVP at The Lightstone Group, about why conviction matters more than consensus and how some of the most durable real estate fortunes are built by leaning into moments of fear, forced selling, and structural inefficiency.

Drawing on experience spanning multiple market cycles, from the 2008 financial crisis to building a $12B+ industrial portfolio during the volatility of COVID, Sanford explains how disciplined underwriting, operational excellence, and emotional detachment separate long-term winners from capital-trapped investors.

So, whether you’re an allocator evaluating managers, an operator navigating today’s uncertain rate environment, or an investor searching for durable alpha, this episode offers a clear framework for capitalizing on every phase of the market cycle and why the coming year may reward those prepared to act decisively.

- Why conviction beats consensus in every real estate cycle: The biggest opportunities rarely appear when markets feel safe. Sanford explains how acting decisively during periods of fear, forced selling, and uncertainty creates asymmetric upside for disciplined buyers.

- How to move fast without sacrificing institutional rigor: Learn how structured SOPs, delegated authority, and clear internal communication allow teams to close quickly, even on non-refundable deals, while maintaining robust downside protection.

- The “glass half empty” underwriting mindset that preserves capital: Instead of betting on falling rates or cap rate compression, Sanford outlines how to model deals assuming nothing goes right and why recession-resistant fundamentals matter more than ever.

- Why falling in love with deals destroys returns: Emotional attachment clouds judgment and traps capital. A timely exit, even at a “good enough” price, often outperforms waiting for a perfect valuation that never comes.

- A five-question framework to spot elite real estate managers: From resume fit to crisis experience to granular modeling, these questions quickly reveal whether a sponsor thinks like an owner or sells like a marketer.

- Why shallow-bay, multi-tenant industrial outperforms trophy assets: Shorter leases, diversified tenant bases, labor-rich submarkets, and operational intensity create rent growth, refinancing upside, and a durable competitive moat.

- How fund structures create hidden buying opportunities: Closed-end funds, sunset provisions, and fractured capital stacks often force sales at the wrong time, turning someone else’s structural pain into your relative-value opportunity.

- The supply shock quietly forming beneath the surface: With development stalled during rate uncertainty and demand holding steady, scarcity is returning, favoring operators with strong balance sheets and well-located assets.

Sanford Blumenthal is Senior Vice President at The Lightstone Group, where he has led more than $3 billion in acquisitions, developments, and financings across residential, hospitality, office, industrial, retail, and land assets. With over 15 years of experience in commercial real estate and investment finance, he specializes in sourcing and executing opportunistic deals with complex capital structures. Sanford has played a key role in developing lifestyle-oriented hotels in major gateway markets, with a particular focus on the Moxy brand. Prior to Lightstone, he worked at Madden Real Estate Ventures, acquiring 17 hotels valued at over $130 million, and began his career at Vornado Realty Trust in acquisitions and capital markets. He graduated magna cum laude from the University of Pennsylvania with a BA in International Relations.

[00:00:39] Intro: From Penn to Real Estate's Biggest Lessons

[00:02:08] The 2007 Crash: How a Bear Stearns Era Built Conviction

[00:04:26] Speed Without Sacrifice: The SOP Framework for Fast Deal Closings

[00:11:49] Emotional Detachment as Competitive Advantage

[00:20:48] COVID Opportunity: Why We Bought When Others Panicked

[00:25:37] Balancing Optimism With Institutional Friction

[00:30:06] Capital Allocation Across Five Real Estate Verticals

[00:37:55] Shallow-Bay Industrial: The Anti-Amazon Strategy

[00:57:52] Why We Buy From Failing Funds: The $50K-to-$115K Key Story

[01:07:53] Why Herd Mentality Beats Conviction (And How to Fight It)

[01:12:00] Final Thoughts: The Five-Question Manager Vetting Checklist

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Greg Fink is Managing Director of Acquisitions at Lightstone, Head of Multifamily, and Chief Investment Officer at Lightstone DIRECT. During his tenure of over a decade at the company, he has closed more than $3 billion in transactions, specializing in high-cash-flow multifamily and industrial assets in tier-two markets. Trained originally in the music industry before earning a master’s degree from NYU, Greg brings a contrarian, fundamentals-first approach to institutional investing.

- How to distinguish investment from speculation: The framework Lightstone uses to underwrite deals based on predictable cash flow and portfolio intelligence rather than exit appreciation and market momentum, and why this separates winners from losers in every cycle.

- Why Class B workforce housing in Tier 2 markets outperforms glamorous Class A assets: The mathematical reality: you cannot simultaneously achieve strong cash flow and aggressive IRR growth on trophy properties. Class A deals are honeypots that trap capital—learn how to avoid them and capture the 6–8% cash-on-cash returns that Class B delivers.

- The $1 billion Detroit portfolio acquisition strategy: How Lightstone's deep operational presence and "boots on the ground" enabled a conviction-driven $50 million deposit in five weeks—and why this deal structure (25–35% below-market family-operated assets) is completely invisible to traditional investors.

- How to assess sponsor alignment through co-investment percentages: Lightstone's 20%+ minimum co-investment requirement is a red flag checker—most sponsors invest only 1–5%. Learn why this single metric reveals whether your sponsor's interests are truly aligned with yours.

- The critical relationship between acquisitions and asset management teams: Deep collaboration between deal sourcing and post-close operations isn't nice-to-have—it's essential. Real market intelligence (like labor cost pressures) only surfaces when these teams work in tandem, preventing catastrophic underwriting errors.

- How to position your capital for the institutional rotation: As mega-managers re-enter the market in 2024–2025, capital will rotate from heated Tier 1 markets (Austin, Miami, Phoenix) into undervalued Class B and Tier 2 markets. Get positioned now before competition crushes yield.

Greg Fink is Managing Director of Acquisitions at Lightstone and the Chief Investment Officer at Lightstone DIRECT. During his tenure of over a decade at the company, he has closed more than $3 billion in transactions, specializing in high-cash-flow multifamily and industrial assets in tier-two markets. Trained originally in the music industry before earning a master’s degree from NYU, Greg brings a contrarian, fundamentals-first approach to institutional investing.

[00:00] Intro

[00:02] From Music Industry Dreams to Real Estate Leadership

[00:10] Investment vs. Speculation: The Institutional Framework

[00:24] Why Class B Assets Beat Shiny Trophy Deals

[00:33] The $1 Billion Detroit Portfolio: Conviction Through Boots on the Ground

[00:43] Asset Management & Acquisitions: The Alignment That Matters

[00:48] Institutional Capital Rotation & What's Next

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